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Many thanks to Trenton Schoeb for his work in compiling this FAQ. SabMag mailing list commands (including how to subscribe) Archive of selected olde SabMag messages SabMag East mailing list commands (including how to subscribe). (Mailing list for eastern SabMag members. SME get-together info and other area-specific stuff.) Corrections, omissions, missing links FOREWORDThis FAQ is intended to supplement the Honda and Clymer manuals, NOT replace them. In our opinion, anyone who isn't experienced in the procedure in question has no business wrenching on a bike without a manual, especially where safety-related systems such as brakes are concerned. The intent is to provide tips that don't appear in the manuals, and to relate list members' experiences on a variety of topics that frequently are brought up on the SABMAG list. Obviously, we cannot be responsible for any adverse consequences to your bike or your person. Wrench at your own risk. Revision HistoryTABLE OF CONTENTS
CAMS/CAM CHAINS/CAM CHAIN TENSIONERS DIFFERENCES
FANSTAT (RADIATOR FAN THERMOSTATIC SWITCH) IGNITION MAIL ORDER (GENERAL MOTORCYCLE SUPPLY) MANUALS, ERRORS/OMISSIONS/EXCEPTIONS
ACCESSORIES
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| '83 VF1100C V65 Magna | |
| Model Year | 1983 |
| V.I.N. | JH2SC120XDM000029- |
| Engine | SC12E-2000039- |
| Product Code | MB4 |
| Color | Pearl Siren Blue or Candy Maroon |
| Cast wheels with "Star" shaped
design, headlight shel, instruments & Fr Fender are chrome '83-'86, speed nos. in increments of 10 ending with "0s" '83-'84, Fiber optics integrated lock anti-theft system '83-'85. |
| '84 VF1100C V65 Magna | |
| Model Year | 1984 |
| V.I.N. | 49 State - 1HFSC1204EA100001- California - 1HFSC1219EA100004- |
| Engine | 49 State - SC12E-2100001- California - SC12E-2102298- |
| Product Code | MB4 |
| Color | Black or Candy Andromeda Red |
| California model designation is VF1100CL'84, Cast wheels with straight spoke design '84-'86. |
| VF1100C'85 V65 Magna | |
| Model Year | 1985 |
| V.I.N. | 49 State - 1HFSC1209FA200001- California - 1HFSC1218FA200001- |
| Engine | 49 State - SC12E-2200001- California - SC12E-2200001- |
| Product Code | MB4 |
| Color | Black or Pearl Vintage Red |
| California model designation is VF1100CL'85, Speed Nos in increments of 10 ending with "5's" '85-'86, Control levers with screw-type adjusters '85-'86, Push-to-cancel turnsignals switch '85-'86 |
| VF1100C'86 V65 Magna | |
| Model Year | 1986 |
| V.I.N. | 49 State - 1HFSC1203GA300001- California - 1HFSC1212GA300001- |
| Engine | 49 State - SC12E-2300001- California - SC12E-2300001- |
| Product Code | MB4 |
| Color | Black or Candy Glory Red |
| California model designation is
VF1100CL'86, Engine Side Cases are polished, Side stand is chrome plated, FR & RR brake discs with inner cut-offs, Fiber optics integrated lock anti-theft system deleted. |
| VF1100S'84 V65 Sabre | |
| Model Year | 1984 |
| V.I.N. | 49 State - 1HFSC1707EA000001- California - 1HFSC1716EA000001- |
| Engine | 49 State - SC17E-2000001- California - SC17E-2000001- |
| Product Code | MB3 |
| Color | Black/Pleiades Silver Metallic/Red or Black/Maroon/Silver |
| California model designation is VF1100SL'84, Black/Silver unit has red stripe, Black/Maroon unit has silver stripe, Speed Nos in increments of 10 ending with "0's", |
| VF1100S'85 V65 Sabre | |
| Model Year | 1985 |
| V.I.N. | 49 State - 1HFSC1701FA100001- California - 1HFSC1710FA100001- |
| Engine | 49 State - SC17E-2100001- California - SC17E-2100001- |
| Product Code | MB3 |
| Color | Black/Monte Rosa Silver Metallic/Red or Black/Monterosa Silver Metallic/Blue |
| California model designation is VF1100SL'85, Color variations (red & Blue) are stripes only, Speed Nos in increments of 10 ending with "5's" |
One SabMag list member reports the following data (measured from the underside of the handle to the "full" mark):
1984 V65 Sabre - 152mm (one data point)
1984-85 V65 Magna - 157-158mm (three data points)
V45 Magna - 147mm (two data points)
Should you remove it? Only if you feel it gets in the way of the oil filter. Other than that, all it does is divert fuel vapors from the gas tank to the charcoal canister. You will not suffer a performance penalty by leaving it on. The smaller jets of CA bikes should be more of a concern than the canister. Plus, you have to figure out which hoses and tubes go where, and plug them off. Forget to plug a vacuum port, and it'll run lean, and you might hole a piston. Just leave it alone.
DRP offers several stages of engine rebuilds for hot-street, drag racing and road racing. Cylinder head porting, custom valves, crank balancing and set-up, top case boring, transmission repair, blueprinting and complete engine building.
Dodge Racing Products, Huntersville, NC, (704) 892-7961, drp123@mindspring.com
Two books that are helpful for understanding how the electrical and ignition systems work, and therefore make troubleshooting easier, are
Both are available from Whitehorse Press (800-531-1133).
ALTERNATOR
There are a lot of SabMag posts related to ignition problems. The troubleshooting guide in the Honda manual is OK, but it doesn't explain how the system works. The following simplified explanation is adapted from Tranter.
The SabMag ignition system is frequently referred to as a capacitor discharge (CDI) system, but it is actually a more advanced transistorized system. Basically, there are two separate systems, one for cylinders 1 & 3 and one for cylinders 2 & 4, as diagrammed in the manual, with the major components of each being the pulse generator, spark unit, and ignition coil. Base timing is determined by the position of a protrusion on the starter clutch. (In the Honda manual for the V65 Magna, you can see it in the drawing at the top of p. 7-13 and under the left index finger in the top photo on p. 7-23.) The protrustion acts as a "reluctor." That is, when it approaches the pulse generator, which is a coil with a magnetic core, it induces a change in the field of the magnet that in turn induces a voltage pulse in the coil. A second pulse is generated as the protrusion leaves the pulse generator. Since the generation of these pulses is strongly dependent on the distance between the reluctor and the magnet, the air gap between the protrusion and the pulse generator must be correct.
In the spark unit, the "pulse shaper" adjusts the voltage signals from the pulse generator to give a clean cutoff of current to the primary side of the coils and to compensate for variations in pulse voltage due to engine speed. The spark unit also controls advance and dwell, amplifies primary voltage to the coils, and adjusts for variations in battery and alternator voltage. Their complexity and construction are why it is not practical to test or repair them. They either work or they don't. The 1-3 unit controls the tach, so a sudden loss of power and a failed or screwy-acting tach indicates a failed 1-3 spark unit.
From the spark units to the plugs, the system is pretty conventional, except that each subsystem fires both plugs every revolution. That is, each plug fires at the top of the exhaust stroke as well as at the top of the compression stroke.
We have one report of a coil that tested good according to the tests in the Honda manual, but which tested bad at the dealer's shop. Thus, if you're having problems with firing on the 1-3 or 2-4 cylinder pair, and it isn't the spark unit, you might want to have the coil tested by the dealer or an electrical shop.
One good thing to do with wiring harnesses is to take apart every connector and clean both sets of connectors. Get a can of good contact cleaner. A small awl for releasing the clip that holds the contact in the plastic connector, a tube of silicone brake grease, a pencil eraser (the slightly abrasive kind), and a small pair of pliers. Carefully tale apart each connector and spray the dirt out with the contact cleaner. Remove each wire from the connector, clean the male blade connector with the eraser and the wash off with the contact cleaner. Only remove and clean one wire at a time. That way you won't forget where it goes back. Very carefully tighten the curl on the edges of the female connector. If there is any corrosion clean it out with a small piece of 300 grit sandpaper. The corrosion in the blade connectors is the major cause of connector meltdown. If there appears to be corrosion where the wire is crimped to the connector, you can use a small wattage soldering iron and resin core solder to solder it. Don't over cook it. Squirt a blob of high temp grease in the connector before putting it back together and you should eliminate most electrical connector related problems.
The turn signal switch, kill switch, and rear brake switch, at least, can be disassembled and cleaned as above. Be careful when disassembling, as plastic parts can break and springs fly across the garage.
Fixing a finicky ignition switch.
As reported from one SabMag list member:
There is a small circuit board inside the instrument panel. It
is about 2 inches by 2 inches [ 5cm by 5 cm ] in size. There are
4 wires going to that circuit board with the following colors:
Yellow / Blue Goes to CLOCK SET Button
Yellow / Red Goes to CLOCK SET Button
Yellow / Green Goes to CLOCK SET Button
Green / Black GROUND Wire
Note: The CLOCK SET BUTTON is located on the panel between the
handlebars. Also have Check; Lamp Reset; and Trip Reset
nearby.
There are two others wires associated with the CLOCK circuit.
They are located in the plastic housing near the Clutch and choke
actuator. The Sabre has a feature called Elapsed Time Clock. It
can be used for timing how long it takes to get from point A to
point B. For example: from mile marker 1 to mile marker 2. A
switch at this housing controls whether you are in CLOCK MODE or
Elapsed Time Mode. This select-switch has 3 wires going to it:
Green GROUND
Red / Blue Goes to MAIN circuit board in Instrument Cluster
Yellow / Blue Goes to MAIN circuit board in Instrument Cluster
I have a VF750S UK [ united kingdom ] Model , Colorized Wiring
Schematic. It is hard to decipher the Power wires that you need
identified. There appear to be a few that go into the instrument
cluster and the related CLOCK circuit board.
Black / Brown appears to be a power wire as it comes from the
fuse box
Yellow / Red appears to be a power wire
Red / Blue appears to be a power wire
Yellow / Black appears to be a power wire
Red is a power wire coming from the main 30A fuse
EXAMPLES: Black / Brown is a Black wire with a brown stripe
Yellow / Red is a Yellow wire with a red stripe
Red / Yellow is a Red wire with a yellow stripe
BEFORE going into the Instrument Cluster again; you may want to
check the wiring in the small electrical panel between the
handlebars. Check the wiring
for the CLOCK SET switch for good connections. Next check the
wiring in the wiring-box that is located on the left handlebar.
Open it up and check the wiring for the CLOCK and ELAPSED TIME
toggling switch. Then go into the instrument panel for a check of
those wires. I think that the Black / Brown wire might prove out
to be the power wire that feeds the clock. The Black / Brown wire
feeds power to the TACH; FUEL & TEMP UNIT; NEUTRAL LIGHT and
SPEEDOMETER as well as the TRIP CLOCK circuit. From what I can
decipher; any color code with GREEN in it appears to be a return
path or GROUNDING wire. It may well be that your Clock Instrument
is toast. If power is getting to it and its' ground wire is
okay...... then it simply doesn't work anymore.
TURN SIGNAL FLASHER UNIT
The exhaust system can be removed and replaced without disassembly. You'll either need a helper, or use a floor jack under the collector. For removal, leave a little space above the jack, remove the fasteners according to the manual, and wiggle the system loose while lowering the jack in stages until the system is free. To replace, first put the packing sleeves on the rear headers and smear a thin coat of graphite grease on them. Then spread the openings of the connectors on top of the collector slightly. If they are rusty shine up the insides with a wire brush or emery strip. Smear the insides with a little graphite grease. Lift the system up so the front headers are in position, being careful not to bend the gaskets, and so the connectors on the collector are carefully lined up ready to slide over the rear headers. With some jiggling and gentle upward pressure from the jack they should slide on.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Exhaust system rattles not due to loose fasteners may be caused by broken welds holding the inner tubing in the double walled headers, or to loose baffles in the collector. Loose baffles apparently are one reason for the scarcity of salvageable collectors.
AFTERMARKET SYSTEMS
Holeshot lists Vortex 4-into-1 systems for Sabres, Magnas, and Interceptors. Chrome systems for Sab/Mags are $369-$389, and black ceramic finish ones are $379-$399. They are made by MAC and appear to be the same ones sold by MAC for somewhat lower prices. Dale Walker recommends installing a Dynojet Stage I kit with these systems. As of this writing, Kerker still makes a chrome 4-1 system for Magnas, which is listed by DK (over $500). Unfortunately both have noise levels >99dB and are sold for closed course (off-road) use only.
One list member who tried both systems for his Sabre reports that (1) the sound of the Kerker is better than that of the Vortex, (2) the Kerker appears to be better made, since the chrome on the Vortex system quickly yellowed, and (3) MAC apparently has stopped making the ceramic coated systems.
Slip-on replacement mufflers are available from Holeshot, DK, et al.
Unfortunately there are so many variables involved that there is no general consensus among list members as to what works best, and finding one you like is likely to involve some experimentation. Bar/fork mount models are less expensive and more easily installed than frame mounts, but have more adverse effects on stability and handling. Larger models offer more protection but more adverse effects on stability, handling, and top speed. Models that are designed, or can be adjusted, so that the airstream breaks clean from the edges, rather than churning up a lot of turbulence, will be quieter and more comfortable. Having your helmet entirely in a clean airstream will produce less noise and buffeting than having the top inch in a paint-shaker turbulent zone. Your height & posture also are factors, as is your helmet; some are quieter than others.
Getting Gold Wing-like protection may well require something so large you have to look through the plastic, which will result in at least some reduction in vision. There's always at least a little distortion, and it goes downhill from there as bugs, road grime, and scratches accumulate or if it rains.
Someone posted that Mike's of Salem, OR (see salvage yard list.) has some--for $1800 each, and $800 just for the lowers.
Several list members report using or having tried the Natl Cycle Plexistar 2. Some thought it too noisy, others like it. Appears stable to at least 80 mph. You may get less turbulence over the top with it raked way back.
The Natl Cycle Deflector Shield is small, sort of a minimalist approach, inexpensive (less than $50), easy to install, and has a wide range of adjustment. Recommended by several list members.
One list member reports that he doesn't care for the Tracy Road Warrior on his V65 Magna and does not recommend it.!
Kunststofftechnik GmbH
Lauterbachstrasse 19
Industriegebiet
D - 84307 Eggenfelden
Germany
Tel: 0 87 21 96 90 0
Fax: 0 87 21 72 14
RIFLE (800-262-1237 http://www.rifle.com/) Cruiser windshields, sporty fairings, and replacement windscreens for Hondaline fairings. We have one generally favorable report on the Rifle Superbike Fairing, which recommends the optional 18" windscreen over the stock 15" one, and one favorable report on the Sport fairing on a Sabre. Regarding the Rifle Windshield System for Sabre/CBX, "... First off, you'll have to remove more than the old windscreen from the Hondaline fairing. Also gone are the strakes which fit around the mirror mounts. The downside to this is that the two holes for the front mount of each strake are left showing when all is done. Installation is relatively straightforward - but you'll want a very skinny person to help you. About the only way inside the fairing (to mount the nuts for the backside) is through the locking compartments. It takes a very thin and long arm, and plenty of patience. Once on, fit and finish are excellent, with the only design quibble being that they chose a 'pebbled' texture for the black plastic portion. Smooth would have made far more sense."
Another report on the Rifle:
"Add another favorable report for the Rifle Sport. It gives comparable protection to the Hondaline without lowers, but weighs much less. It's also the quietest windshield I've ever ridden behind. You might prefer the 15" windscreen with lower than stock bars on the Sabre."
Two frame mounts that fit both Magnas and Sabres: Aero XP ($779 base) and Classic ($695 base), several options available for each. No reports.
ECHLIN FS130, about $28 from NAPA. Turns on at 191-197F (ascending) and off at 182-187F (descending). The element is about 1/2" longer than the Honda one, but it screws right in and it has the two bayonet connectors found on early V4's.
One list member reports using a fanstat from a salvaged '84 Honda Accord, and the wiring connector for it. It was stamped "92' 87'", which probably indicates that it should turn on at 92C and off at 87C. When tested, this was pretty close. The Accord fanstat runs two fans through a relay, so you also need to get the relay out of the fuse box, just behind the battery on the right fender. It is marked "Fan" on the cover. While you're there, look around the engine compartment for a connector (with all four terminals in it---sometimes they use a 4 wire connector with only 2 or 3 wires) that fits onto the relay, and cut it out of the harness with about 6" tails to work with. The bike's wiring for the fan looks like this:
| blk/blu blue black green +----~---------=------------(M)----=-----o/o----------------> fuse plug fan motor fan stat ground |
It needs to be made into this:
Proceed as follows:
Remove both steering head covers and the left covers of the radiator. Trace the wiring to the fan, which has a connector behind the steering head cover, and the fanstat. Remove the looming from the fanstat wiring where it goes across the frame, and from the wiring between the fuse and wiring harness. Cut the black/blue wire between the fuse and the fan connector. Strip both ends and install female blade connectors on both, with a 3" piece of stranded wire siamesed in with the one from the fuse. Put a connector on the end of the 3" piece as well. The two connectors are #s 1 and 2 above, while the connector on the end toward the plug is # 3. Cut the black wire from the fan connector and "leech" it onto the green wire from the fanstat, either by soldering or with a self stripping wire connector--connection 4. Cut the black wire from the fan stat and install another female wire connector on it--connection 5. The relay will be marked with symbols like this: -|/|- for the coil, terminations 2 and 5, and something like this: -o/o- , which are the relay contacts, #s 3 and 4. If you find a 3 terminal relay, the connection between 1 and 2 is internal, and you will not need the siamesed wire. Other relays may have 4 or 5 terminals, but 2 of them may be marked "NO" and "NC". Use the "NO" contact as # 4, and insulate the "NC" contact, as it will be hot when the fan stat is open (cold).
Brand name: GP Sorenson
Part Number: 40-5001
Price: $14.99 (Advance Auto Parts- prices may vary from state to state.)
Thread pitch: M16 X 1.5
Normally open
Closes at 189 to 199 degrees F
Opens at 181 to 171 degrees F
This switch is the direct equivalant to the NAPA #FS130
This switch fits many Honda car applications,
1975-1991 Honda Civic All 3 door(hatchback) and CRX models
also 1986-1991 Acura Integra, all engine sizes.
For additional information on installing a fanstat, especially those with single-connector OEM fanstats.
Stant brand numbers
160 degree
35366
BT 336 160
$3.99
170 degree
35967
$11.99
180 degree
35368
BT 336 180
$3.99
K&N and Uni sell alternatives to the Honda units. (The paper elements for Magnas are expensive.) Only two reports on the Uni, one recommends it and the other does not. Many list members like the K&N (in one case after using one on a V65 Magna for 80K miles), but for a dissenting point of view based on oil analyses, see Brian L. Sydness's oil test document.
An inexpensive unit that is a close replacement for the Honda one is available from DK and may be found in auto supply stores. Some Honda dealers also carry them.
You can find alternatives that are a lot cheaper and that fit on the bike, but unless you verify the flow rate and bypass pressure, you're on your own. See http://math.uwaterloo.ca/~rblander/oil_filters.txt for further information.
Also, from another list member:
Wix now has a bonafide list of motorcycle models and related oil filters. The 1334 which was for the VFR is now for the VF/VFR's thru 1986. The Wix filter for the 90-current model VFR is 1358. The price is about half ($5.50 US) and readily available.
Other alternates for the Honda "small" filter:
NAPA Gold: 1356
BIG A: 92356
Carquest: 85356
Deutsch: D-370
Fram: PH7317
Motorcraft: FL822
Purolator: L14620
Wix: 51356
This was an alarm system that used a fiber optic cable and was powered by a 9V battery. The cable was looped around some object and inserted into the alarm unit using the ignition key. If the cable was cut or pulled out the alarm sounded. Clever idea, but the cable couldn't stand being rolled up tightly and crammed into the tool box, and they failed regularly and early. Replacements cost around $150. Honda sells a little metal plate that can be used to cover the space left if you remove the unit, at least for Magnas. It's a pain to install, since you have to remove the auxiliary fuel tank to get to the bolt holding the alarm unit.
See SUSPENSION.
Deal with this with a liquid tank liner. The standard product for bikes is called Kreem. It is available from MO houses. You may also be able to find similar products at auto supply stores. If you use Kreem, you basically follow the directions, with the following exceptions and cautions.
This is likely to be due to a broken gear shift arm spring. See http://math.uwaterloo.ca/~rblander/V4_info.txt.
From another listmember:
"Sometimes you will have difficulty shifting due to a sticky lever or a weak return spring. With the bike on the centerstand, operate the shift lever by hand. If the lever is sticky in both directions, the pivot likely needs to be cleaned and lubricated. If the lever shifts OK, but doesn't return to it's center position, you likely have a weakened return spring. This spring is susceptible to losing it's tension due to overheating or age. It is located under the clutch cover, to the rear of the clutch. You do not have to remove the clutch to replace this spring."
This report from one list member concerning use of the K&N Nighthawk/Magna bars on V65 Magnas: "My first installation of these bars was on a 1984 V65 Magna. The hydraulic cables fit OK, but they were kind of tight when the handlebar was turned to one extreme. I had to loosen the clutch line from its clamp on the frame to alleviate the stress. When the handlebars were turned all the way to the left, there was a slight tension on the throttle cables, which increased the engine RPM by about 100. I decided to live with it. Also, the stock Honda handlebars have a little hole near the end. Into this hole fits a little protrusion from the choke/horn assembly to keep it from rotating. Instead of drilling a new hole in the handlebars, I just bent the tab back, and put some high friction tape on the handlebars at the spot where the hole was. This worked out OK. None of the wiring presented any difficulty. I used this configuration for about 1 year, approximately 25,000 miles, with no difficulty. Since then, I have added braided steel hydraulic lines, which I had made 2" longer than stock. Those worked better than the stock lines. With the braided lines (and unchanged throttle) I rode for another year approximately 30,000 miles. On my 1986, I noticed that the clutch and brake master cylinder were different from those on the 1984. The fitting came out the front, not the side as in the 1984. I installed the same handlebars on the 1986, with the lengthened braided steel lines from the hospitalized 1984. I don't know what difference the repositioning of the hydraulic line output would make with stock lines, but it seems that it would slightly alleviate the stress upon handlebar extremes. On the 1986 I kept the stock throttle & choke cables, which causes it to be just as tight (at extremes) as the 1984. The only time it has any affect is when I turn the handlebars fully to the left. This rarely happens to me in any type of riding. When I first bought the 1986 V65, I wanted bars that had a really long pullback, for comfort. I bought these from Flanders Co.; I don't recall the P/N. I also bought lengthened throttle cables, from Flanders. Actually, I sent them cables, and they lengthened them for me for about $15 ea. I rode with the long pullback bars for a while, but I felt they were too narrow. The width was only 29" or so, and with the very long pullback, it put my hands in a very uncomfortable position. I went back to the K&N ones. I am debating whether to buy wider bars with a longer pullback, such as Dennis Kirk P/N 59-48 [Honda 750-900 Custom], since I already have the lengthened throttle cables. Only the future will tell.
The K&N Magna handlebars, if you are mechanically inclined, should go on without much difficulty in a few hours of your time. If you go any larger, you will definitely have to modify your cables, including Both throttles, choke, clutch line, and at least your upper front brake line. The cable modification is not that difficult a task. Flanders Co. in California was very helpful and informative, and they have a free catalog. Flanders can be reached at 800-423-4483."
For the V45 Sabre ('82 and '83 in the US and '82 to '85 in Canada) the bars are clip-on style. The options in changing them are limited. For a lower bar, you can mount them below the triple clamp, or try to use Interceptor bars. The VF500 had the same diameter fork tubes, but the Sabre has bulkier switch gear to mount, and the 750 Interceptor had a larger fork tube, so it won't just bolt up. Novella sells a bracket to convert to a tube bar, but space between the fork legs is used up by the odometer and accessory switches. While you could use a tube bar with this, you would have to cut out the center section, in essence making your own clip-ons. Novella (847-359-2666) also sells clip on bars for a variety of fork diameters, but space for mounting the switch gear remains a concern.
The 82 Sabre/Magna used sealed beam headlights (rectangular for Sabre, round for Magna). There are direct replacement reflector assemblies available for each to convert to H-4 bulbs from the 83 models.
83 V45 Sabre Rect. H-4 Reflector 33120-MG5-671
83 V45 Magna Round H-4 Reflector 33100-MF5-751
These part numbers may have since been superceded, but it should point you in the right direction.
Louder horns are highly recommended. You may see a "tip" that turning out the adjusters on backs of the stock horns (which may be covered with some kind of goop and painted over) will make them louder (MCN 9/96 p. 4). List members report this doesn't do much other than change the pitch.
MO houses sell louder horns, but Fiamms in particular are highly regarded, and several list members highly recommend them. They can be found at auto supply stores, although some searching may be required, or a dealer may be able to order them for you. Installation is easiest with a kit that includes the relay, fuse, and instructions. If you can't find one, you can get a suitable 30A relay and a 20A inline fuse at an auto supply store. The circuits are
An alternative to Honda hoses is 7/8" heater hose, if you can find it. This will serve for the straight ones, but the ones on the water pump are too sharply bent.
Use bulk hose of the correct size. Honda dealers carry metric hose; it is a little expensive, but $10-$15 worth is enough to completely replace the fuel and breather hoses. We have one report that the large hose between the main and reserve tanks can be replaced with 3/4" heater hose with a piece of smaller hose inside to keep it from kinking. Our advice is that if you're going to try this make sure the hose is neoprene. Some compounds don't stand up to gasoline. [We don't recommend using hose not specifically labeled for fuel use.]
SPARK BOX REPAIR - One list member has a web page on repairing these expensive units. Good luck: http://www.enteract.com/~kochc/moto/spark/ig_repair.html.
First, check the bulb. If it's good, the problem commonly is worn or dirty contacts in the ignition switch, which has separate circuits for the taillight and main power. Verify with a VOM. Treat by disassembling the switch (watch out for the springs) and cleaning with contact cleaner. Polish the contacts with crocus cloth if corroded. If a replacement switch is needed, you can get an alternative part from DK and probably other MO houses as well for much less than the Honda part. Disadvantage is that you would then need 2 keys.
Eclipse products (MO houses) are recommended by several list members. Others have leather bags and put the contents in garbage bags for rain protection. Rider Wearhouse (800-222-1994) has some waterproof soft saddlebags, and some other good luggage, too. We have one report concerning unsatisfactory service from Capital Cycle, importers of GIVI hard bags. Also, the mounting kit is described as "just adequate," with the list member advising that he'd fabricate his own next time.
Solely a custom fabrication proposition as far as we know. See STANDOFF.GIF for one way to do it on a Magna.
From one list member: "...Sacs...are made for Harleys, but work great on any Magna with a sissy bar. Being a Harley accessory, they're not too cheap, but they've been well worth the expense... There are two bags... The larger one is about $130 and the small one is about $80. ... Each bag has a flap that fits over the sissy bar, and straps which wrap around the rear turn signals to anchor it down. If you ride alone, the bag sits on the passenger seat; with a passenger, it hangs off the back. The smaller bag is about the size of a small duffle bag, and has a Velcro-in plastic bag for ice, so it doubles as a cooler for picnics. It's great for tooling around town & running errands, and can be strapped on top of the larger bag. The larger bag is the size of a large backpack, and the tie-down straps convert to shoulder straps once you get off the bike. It's great for when you don't want to leave all your gear on your bike, and don't have anywhere to stash your bags, like on camping trips, which is exactly what I wanted the bags for. Also, without a passenger, the large bag makes a great full-size backrest. The bags are very sturdy--nylon around what feels like neoprene foam.
There is a competing product called T-bags, which I was thinking about getting when I first looked into this type of bag. The T-bags do have some advantages: They're cheaper (about $130 for a model similar to the two Sacs combined). They have a model specifically made for Magnas, whereas the Sacs are specifically for Hogs, and don't fit perfectly. They seem to have more pockets and compartments. Sacs have one big compartment and a few small map-type Velcro pockets on the outside. Disadvantages: T-Bags are made from a thinner material and don't seem as sturdy. They have lots of straps to flap around, where the sacs only have the tie-down straps. No cooler capability, as far as I'm aware. All in all, I'm very happy with the Sacs, and use them much more than I use my saddlebags.
Another nice thing is that, since they hang off the sissy bar, they can be used along with saddlebags (and a tank bag, if you really need that much gear) for long trips with a passenger."
From another list member: Rev-Pak (800-766-2461) makes "generic" tailbags that fit over most sissy bars and cinch in place with straps. (They also have some other neat luggage.) They have one large and one small zippered compartments, rings for additional attachments, soft fabric on the bottom, and a carrying handle.
They are rather simple affairs but not very expensive and come with raincovers. The smaller of the two ($60) is about the size of a student backpack. It is fine for a modest amount of gear.
These are also available from Whitehorse Press (800-531-1133), usually with less wait than from Rev-Pak.
Eclipse tank bags also are favored by many. Also, from one list member: "Let me put my vote in for a bag that doesn't get much press: the Fox. They make two, the Sport Shuttle and the one I own. ... The Sport Shuttle...[has] one main compartment with...lots of room and [is] recommended for the $40.00 asking price. ...
[T]he larger tankbag, ...$70, ...I highly recommend...Lots of room, expandable, and it has three small pockets on the sides and rear of the bag. For scratch prevention, it rides on a large neoprene pad. Uses a standard three-point mounting. ...I couldn't be happier with another bag than the Fox. ...I would challenge Eclipse to beat the Fox bag. This coming from a guy riding 13-15K mi./yr, both vacation trips and daily trips to client sites."
We have one favorable recommendation for RKA tankbags
(800-349-1752).
For waterproof gear bags and other camping gear, look into offerings by Rider Wearhouse (800-222-1994) and camping suppliers such as:
Chaparral (800-841-2960) is highly regarded.
Dennis Kirk (800-328-9280) has good service, but their prices tend to be a little higher, They will match others' prices on certain items only, and only if you ask.
Motorcycle Accessory Warehouse: some have had good experiences, but enough folks have reported MAW to be slow-shipping and at times out-and-out liars that it's probably not worth the trouble to order from them.
Several other MO houses (see advertisements in any motorcycle magazine) get mixed reviews for service.
For the Canucks amongst us (shipping from the U. S. can be cost prohibitive):
http://www.powersports.on.ca/
From their website:
Toll Free North America 1-800-862-4662
Phone: (416) 234-5750 -- Fax: (416) 234-5752
5308 Dundas St. W., Toronto, Ontario, Canada, M9B 1B3.
dave@powersports.on.ca
Recommends adjustment of the rear brake pedal to 1/4" below the footpeg (p. 35). The correct adjustment is 1/4" above the footpeg.
Don't bother asking the list, you'll get the same answer: it'll come to you. We can't name it for you.
Periodic oil analyses are a good way to monitor for abnormal engine wear.
Sources:
Detect Auto Labs, Inc.
280 Park Avenue South, Suite 9G
New York, NY 10010
Least expensive ($5-$10); sometimes found in large auto super stores; does not list previous samples; always suggest that you change the oil, regardless of condition.
Lubricant Consultants, Inc.
350 E. Churchman Ave.
Beech Grove, IN 46107
(317) 783-2968
Around $10/test, sample kit a few bucks more; provides a history of tests; good for looking at trends.
Cleveland Technical Center
18419 Euclid Avenue
Cleveland, OH 44112-1016
(800) 726-5400
Provide history of tests and contact you by telephone if they discover a problem; $6 for a sample kit (3 samples), $8 for the actual test. You can buy the kits directly. Results from all three labs are reported to be reasonably close for the same sample.
Almost everybody uses synthetic or a synthetic/petroleum blend. See oil FAQ. Change intervals are frequent, every 3000 miles for most list members. For an alternative view see the oil test document. FWIW one list member relates that Megacycle does not recommend Golden Spectro oils, saying they don't provide enough protection for the cams and followers. They do recommend Kendall, Red-Line, Motul, and Honda.
The manual describes checking oil pressure at the oil pressure light switch hole. The hole is metric thread just *slightly* smaller than 1/8" NPT. You need a male M12 x 1 to female 1/8 NPT adapter ('85 V65 Magna; check on other models). These adapters are sold by auto parts suppliers to enable oil pressure gauge installation on metric engines. You attach a mechanical oil pressure gauge (the kind that connects to the engine with small tubing) to the adapter.
Some list members have oil pressure gauges permanently installed. See GAUGES.TXT, GAUGES.GIF, and ADAPTER.GIF for a good-looking installation and instructions.
http://hometown.aol.com/sabmagpatch/order.htm
One list member reports obtaining parts microfiches from:
WCC Wholesale Parts 1-800-438-7921
$5.00 on Honda and $2.00 all others plus shipping.
NEW
Discount Honda Parts (800-669-2275)
Banzai Parts (800-405-7283)
Southwest Parts - Pricing: (602) 305-9291, Orders: (800) 459-4522
Western Honda - (800) 279-7433
MR Cycles - (800) 359-0567
Freedom Cycles - Info.: (816) 761-6621, Orders: (800) 759-4830
Ron Ayers Motorsports - (800) 888-3084
Midwest Action Cycle - (800) 343-9065
WCC Wholesale Parts (800-438-7921)
See salvage list. Motorcycle Shopper also publishes a boneyard list:
1997 Motorcycle Salvage Yard Directory
Motorcycle Shopper, Dec 1996
or, $4 from
Motorcycle Shopper
Attn: 1997 Salvage Yard Directory
1353 Herndone Ave.
Deltona, FL 32725-9046
407-860-1989
Also, there is a boneyard list at http://percival.xyz.com/st1100.
Another to check out: http://anvil-group.com/yards/bike.htm
And yet more:
Salvage Yard Network - http://motodealer.com/network/
NOT SPECIFICALLY MOTORCYCLE BUT NEVERTHELESS USEFUL
Several companies sell hose and fittings suitable for brake lines and oil mods, as well as a great variety of fasteners and other products.
(1) Flanders Co. (catalog not available until 1997)
Box 93605
Pasadena CA 91109
800-423-4438
(2) McMaster-Carr (908-329-3200)(hardware supplier)
(from Cycle World reviews of the '82 v45 Magna, '83 v65 Magna and the '82 V45 Sabre)
| V45 Magna | V45 Sabre | V65 Magna | V65 Sabre | |
| Power, bhp @ rpm: | 80.3 @ 9500 | 80.3 @ 9500 | 116 @ 9500 | 93.7 (CW dyno) |
| Torque, lb-ft @ rpm: | 46.2 @ 8000 | 46.2 @ 8000 | 70 @ 7500 | 62.5 (CW dyno) |
| Test wt, lb: | 518 | 525 | 579 | 594 |
| 1/4 mile, sec @ mph: | 12.08 @ 108.82 | 12.16 @ 108.43 | 11.07 @ 123.62 | 11.38@ 120.36 |
| Top speed (1/2 mi): | 122 mph | 123 | 137 mph | 139 mph |
| MPG: | 46 | 49.5 | 39 | |
| Range to reserve, mi: | 120 | 183 | 144 | 207 |
Acceleration (seconds)
| V45 Magna | V45 Sabre | V65 Magna | V65 Sabre | |
| 0-30: | 1.8 | 1.8 | 1.8 | 1.5 |
| 0-40: | 2.7 | 2.7 | 2.6 | 2.0 |
| 0-50: | 3.6 | 3.6 | 3.4 | 2.7 |
| 0-60: | 4.6 | 4.6 | 4.3 | 3.3 |
| 0-70: | 5.5 | 5.5 | 5.2 | 4.1 |
| 0-80: | 6.6 | 6.6 | 6.1 | 4.9 |
| 0-90: | 7.8 | 7.8 | 7.0 | 6.0 |
| 0-100: | 9.6 | 9.7 | 8.3 | 7.3 |
Top gear (seconds)
| V45 Magna | V45 Sabre | V65 Magna | V65 Sabre | |
| 40-60: | 4.8 | 5.0 | 4.2 | 3.7 |
| 60-80: | 5.5 | 5.7 | 3.6 | 3.9 |
Calculated max. speed in gears, mph
| V45 Magna | V45 Sabre | V65 Magna | V65 Sabre | |
| 1st: | 48 | 51 | 57 | 58 |
| 2nd: | 68 | 72 | 80 | 82 |
| 3rd: | 85 | 90 | 100 | 103 |
| 4th: | 103 | 109 | 121 | 124 |
| 5th: | 123 | 130 | 145 | 148 |
| 6th: | 147 | 156 | 173 | 177 |
Speedometer error
| V45 Magna | V45 Sabre | V65 Magna | V65 Sabre | |
| 30 mph indicated: | 28 | 29 | 29 | 30 |
| 60 mph indicated: | 57 | 58 | 56 | 58 |
Braking distance, ft
| V45 Magna | V45 Sabre | V65 Magna | V65 Sabre | |
| from 30 mph: | 27 | 30 | 29 | 30 |
| from 60 mph: | 125 | 119 | 117 | 127 |
From Cycle World May '84:
1/4 mile: 11.38 sec @ 120.36 mph
Top speed in 1/2 mile: 139 mph
From Cycle July '84
1/4 mile: 11.20 @ 121.69
From Cycle Guide June '84 "Quickest, Fastest Shootout"
| Bike | 1/4 mile time @ speed | Top speed |
| Yamaha FJ1100 | 10.681 @ 125.34 | 145.9550 |
| Suzuki GS1150ES | 10.742 @ 124.13 | 142.6200 |
| Kawasaki Ninja 908 | 10.831 @ 124.65 | 145.3710 |
| Honda VF1000F | 10.834 @ 125.69 | 146.8187 |
| Honda V65 Sabre | 10.857 @ 125.00 | 140.6250 |
| Kawasaki 750 Turbo | 10.944 @ 122.11 | 143.3121 |
| Kawasaki GPZ1100 | 11.016 @ 120.80 | 138.4615 |
From Cycle May '85 "Horsepower Shootout" (dyno measured)
| Bike | 1/4 mile time @ mph | Bhp @ rpm | Torque @ rpm |
| Suzuki GS1100EF | 10.81 @ 124.44 | 101.00 @ 9000 | 65.11 @ 7500 |
| Yamaha V-Max | 10.99 @ 124.04 | 119.08 @ 9000 | 77.54 @ 6000 |
| Yamaha FJ1100 | 10.99 @ 122.34 | 98.24 @ 9000 | 61.41 @ 7500 |
| Kawasaki ZL900 | 11.07 @ 123.25 | 90.50 @ 9000 | 56.64 @ 8000 |
| Kawasaki ZX900R | 11.08 @ 125.17 | 94.16 @ 10500 | 55.33 @ 8500 |
| Kawasaki ZX750 turbo | 11.13 @ 120.32 | 90.02 @ 9500 | 65.1 @ 5000 |
| Honda VF1100S | 11.23 @ 122.61 | 93.70 @ 9000 | 62.60 @ 7000 |
If it goes inside a Honda V-4 motor DRP claims to make it and have it in stock. Forged pistons, racing cams, valve springs, titanium retainers, performance rods and a complete stock of OEM replacement engine parts.
Dodge Racing Products, Huntersville, NC, (704) 892-7961, drp123@mindspring.com
For a guide, see the AMA Official Motorcycle Value Guide.Original, wholesale, and retail prices for last 12 years. Three issues/year; $30/year or $12.95 for current issue; 800-972-5312. (Motorcyclist 11/96 p. 93.)
Pep Boys, the Stant "11227" Swiv-el (R) Radiator Cap (4.99 or so).
Reportedly fits perfectly.
V65 MAGNA. Cycle 3/83, Cycle World 4/83, Cycle Canada 6/83, Cycle Guide 10/83, Rider 12/83, Cycle 8/84, Cycle 1/85, Cycle Guide 2/85, Cycle 1/86
Get a photocopied set of reviews for US$16 from:
Motorcycle Reports
Ian Smith Information
PO Box 9440
Denver, CO, 80209-9440
iamsmitty@aol.com
http://www.webgraphic.com/isi/
CORBIN (800-538-7035; http://www.corbin.com/corbin.html) makes the Dual Touring Saddle for V45 and V65 Magnas, but, unfortunately, not for 700s or 500s. They also have the Canyon Dual Sport for V65, V45 and 700 Sabres. Both are popular among list members.
MUSTANG (800-243-1392). Mustang makes seats for Magnas, but not Sabres. They are softer than the Corbin and a couple of LMs who have tried both say they are more comfortable than the Corbin:
There are two basic types, a wide touring saddle and a narrower squareback design. This from one list member who likes the narrow version: "It...sits a little lower, and IMO (and the female passengers') is a lot more comfortable than a Corbin. I have both, but now exclusively ride with the Mustang. It cost (back in late 1992) about $189, and the touring version cost about $199. I am still riding with it, and I have put over 60,000 hard miles on it between both bikes. ...The narrow, cruiser style seat sits a little lower than stock, about 1 to 2", but I have never measured it. I think one of the reasons that a person sits lower is the fact that it is narrow in the proper places. When you put your legs down at a stop, they do not have a tendency to spread apart, as in the stock or Corbin seat. Your legs actually rub against and hug the side panels."
MAYER
916-246-7521
625 Eastridge Rd.
Redding, CA 96001
Vinyl double seat $250
Solo vinyl seat $195
Leather add $125
California residents pay sales tax.
Send in your original seat pan. You must also take three photographs with the bike off the center stand and supported by someone. #1 is with both rider and passenger, #2 solo rider, and #3 an oblique photo. It's best if the photo shows the left shoulder of the rider and the ground. Have the cameral positioned directly opposite the rider for the first two photos and then take two steps to the right for the oblique photo. When the photos are ready, call Mayer and set up the time to send in your seat pan. If you live in California return ups is free, out of state you pay UPS.
DIAMOND CUSTOM SEATS (712-347-5316) makes seats custom built for each individual rider, and for "almost any model of bike." (MT&T 11/96 p. 54) No reports.
TRAVELCADE (800-397-7709; http://www.saddlemen.com) makes seats for Magnas, at least. Available from DK.
Report from a list member:
They were available from DK. I got mine (cover only) from J.C. Whitney. It staples on, can be done in about an hour, and is excellent. I got the wide butt touring bucket, 'cos I'm getting older and my wide butt needs it.
UTOPIA
www..inb.net/utopia
330-666-2602.
Rebuilds only. They have a standard price of $65 for refoam of stock seat. They also do some upgrading\customizing.
From one listmember:
"I had them do the seat on my gold wing last year. Not as good as the Russel seat I had on my '76 wing, but acceptable at one fifth the price."
SARGENT CYCLE (800-749-7328). Anyone interested in a custom seat alternative to Corbin or Mustang or in just getting an old seat fixed should check them out. They advertise a 2 day turnaround and a wide variety of custom covering and fitting options. Prices look reasonable, e.g., $69.95 basic recovering charge. Claim to be able to lower seats, too.
One list member reports on Sargent:
I sent off my very shabby 1982 magna seat. I got it back the other day <and> it looked fabulous. I had the front part lowered about 2 inches sloped towards the backrest. So you actually sit down into the seat, very comfy. I had the passenger area sculpted a bit to. I had it slope down a little towards the rear before it dips back up. I was tired of my girlfriend sliding forward into me every time I got energetic with the brakes. They put a nice button fit cover on it, and completeley redid my backrest pad to match. Very sharp. I highly reccommend them. Total job was about $160. Its generally cheaper if you dont have custom foam sculpting.
As far as the seat goes, I always felt the stock foam was too flat, and had kind of a ridge in the middle that you had to straddle. I always wanted to sit down into the seat so it could hold my weight, without having to use my lower back muscles. I weigh about 210 and Im 6'1". So Im a pretty big guy. After the Sargent modifications the seat is as I thought it should be. I drew them a little diagram, and had a couple of phone calls with them, and they did a good job. They wanted to replace all the foam because I guess mine was a little worn out, but I didn't feel like spending the extra money. What they do though is if you order the button fit cover they put a fresh layer of foam on top of the stock foam, to give it sort of a cushy look. It also makes the seat real soft.
RUSSELL
One list members report on Russell:
Russell Cycle Products *will* build one of their "DayLong" saddles just
the way you want it (rider backrest, please) and will build each half of
the seat to suit you and your rider!! Cost is slightly higher than the
Corbin (approx. $300), and the wait is about 6 weeks, but Iron Butt
participants swear by these seats. I'll be ordering one soon.
Russell Cycle Products, Inc.
3rd & Main, PO Box 609
Fall River Mills, CA 96028
YET ANOTHER SEAT COMPANY, BUT WE KNOW NOTHING:
http://www.he.net/~wsm/index.html
Warm Springs Motorcycle Seat Upholstery
2060 Warm Springs Court, Suite #5
Fremont, CA 94539
800.763.9732
The plastic tabs that hold the sidecovers in place often get broken off. From one list member:
"After trying epoxy alone twice on a broken tab, I tried the following and the tab hasn't broken since. First, I thoroughly cleaned all the old epoxy off the base and the tab. Then I used the point of a 3-cornered file to roughen the hollow area under the tab. I used Loctite #82565, 'Plastix Advanced Plastic Bonder,' to attach the tab. This product is a Super Glue type glue with an 'activator' that you brush on the edges to be joined immediately before applying the glue. Then I filled the hollow area under the tab with epoxy putty; I don't recall the brand but JB Weld or any similar product should work."
SplitFire: don't bother.
You can replace the wires in the plug leads. Copper wire is the best; the only reason for the use of resistive type wires is to reduce ignition noise pickup in the radio, and all the fancy electronics in the average new cage. Resistive type wires reduce the intensity of the spark, ie. restrict the current flow. Unscrew the compression sleeve that holds the plug wire in place in the coil. There is an O-ring on the wire; remove and save it. There is a slot in the fitting that pushes over the threaded end of the spark plug, loosen it with a screw driver and remove it from the plug end. You can push the wire out through the rubber plug cap. Unsolder the brass washer from the wire. Cut a new piece of copper core ignition wire to the same length + 1/4" as the old wire. Strip back the insulation and solder the brass washer onto the wire. Feed the wire back through the plug end and reassemble. Put the compression fitting on the other end and replace the O-ring. Smear a bit of dielectric grease inside the plug fitting; this makes it much easier to remove later. Don't forget to check the old plugs for carbon tracks on the insulator. Nothing worse for a good spark than a conductive boot. You can replace the spark plug boots with NGK P/N SD05F and XD05F.
From Rider magazine's tech Q&A:
Q: I am the owner of a 1985 Honda V65 Sabre with a starter motor that is going bad. I spoke with my local dealer, who shocked me with the price of a new starter-approximately $300! When I asked about getting it rebuilt, they did not recommend it, stating that rebuilt starters do not last. I do not need a starter that will last another 13 years, but a couple of years would be nice. Do you have any recommendations on this and if so, do you know who can do the rebuild?
A: I recommend that you or a competent friend do the re-build. If you can change the oil and filter on your bike, you can repair the starter motor. It's not that difficult, and besides-what do you have to lose? With a lot of bikes, just getting the starter out can be a nightmare. In the case of the V-four Honda it's a snap, as it's held to the front of the engine with two 6mm bolts, and if it takes you more than two minutes to pull it out, you're dragging your feet. Don't worry about the hole in the crankcase it slides into-no oil is going to run out. Here's the one great truth about all motorcycle starter motors: they're all shockingly expensive. What's more, few parts are available separately for them, and in some models, none at all. Compared to some, that $300 you were quoted is a bargain. However, most manufacturers at least offer a carbon brush-plate assembly, because that's the item that usually wears out.
For the V65 the part number's 31206-VM5-008. It sells for about $16. Your bike's starter is held together by two long Phillips screws joining caps at either end to the outer casing. Before disassembly, I recommend making reference marks where the end caps join the casing, because they're only go back together one way and finding that one way can take ages. Fingernail polish or scratch marks will make reassembly much easier. Gently tap or pry off the end caps-stay after it, they will come off. In each end cap is a small bearing that supports the spinning armature. Make careful note of any shims or thrust washers stuck to these bearings with old grease or carbon dust. Lay everything out in the order it came apart. Now blast all components squeaky clean with brake or electrical cleaner for a thorough examination. Worn out brushes will be obvious. You might even find a cracked soldered connection as the cause of your woes everything in a starter motor is pretty simple, except for the armature. It can have a broken internal winding that's impossible to see, so run it over to your local automotive machine shop or starter motor repair facility for testing. If they give it the thumbs up, have them chuck the armature in a lathe to dress down the end that the carbon brushes ride on, because it will be hour-glass-shaped. If all of this work costs you more than $10 I'd be surprised. Solder in the new brush plate and lightly grease the inner race of the end-cap bearings. If two small planetary gears are employed in one end cap, grease them, too. Reassemble everything and test the starter on the bench with jumper cables and your bike's battery. Attach the negative cable to the body of the starter and the positive cable to the hot input post. Don't be alarmed by a few sparks as you touch the post-just make sure nothing combustible (including the battery) is nearby The starter motor should rock and spin hard when 12 volts are directly applied to it. No, a rebuilt starter motor won't last like a new one. But for less than US$30 and an afternoon's work it will last long enough.
Rider / April 1998
| 1. Wash, dry, and wax the bike thoroughly. |
| 2. Drain the coolant, flush the system, and add new coolant. |
| 3. Put some gas stabilizer in the tank (available at auto part stores). Also make sure the tank is as full as possible. |
| 4. Ride the bike until it's warmed up. |
| 5. Change the oil and filter. |
| 6. Lube the chain. (Shafties take a break.) |
| 7. Turn off the fuel petcock. |
| 8. Drain the carb fuel bowls. |
| 9. Remove the air filter. |
| 10. Remove the spark plugs. Inject a small amount of 2-stroke oil into each cylinder. Crank the motor a few times. List members question the value of spraying WD-40 into the air intakes. |
| 11. Replace the spark plugs and air filter. |
| 12. Seal the air intakes with duct tape to keep out mice etc. |
| 13. Remove the battery and put it on a trickle charger in a warm place. |
| 14. Put the bike on the centerstand and block it up so the front tire also is off the ground. |
| 15. Spray some WD40 into the exhaust pipes. This absorbs water and puts a nice oil coating on the insides of the exhaust system. ONLY do this AFTER the pipes are cool to the touch. |
| 16. Seal the ends of the mufflers with plastic bags. |
| 17. Put some silicon preservative on a rag and wipe down all the rubber pieces except for the grips, pegs, and tires. |
| 18. Lube all cables and moving gizmos like foot pegs, levers, etc. |
| 19. Bleed the brakes and clutch. |
| 20. Cover with a breathable cover. Honda suggests that if the bike is going to be in storage for more then 4 months, you change the oil again when you get it out. If you do that, you might as well put cheap oil in for the winter, and replace it in the spring with good oil. (Some list members think this is a waste.) No reason to change the oil filter twice though. |
Favorable report: the Pocket Pump/Gauge by Richter Performance, which has an aluminum body with an attached gauge and a hose with a screw-on Schrader valve fitting on the end. The aluminum body has a little plunger you press to bleed off air. You have a choice of interchangeable pumps that attach to the aluminum body. The pumps are basically plastic syringes of various sizes.
The fork brace is somewhat flimsy and tends to crack or break through the bolt holes, especially on V65s and most especially on V65 Magnas.
Holeshot lists a SuperBrace replacement (catalog number SB-2245, V65 Magna 1983-1986, $99.95), but as of this writing they are on indefinite backorder. Apparently the manufacturer has changed ownership and is having production problems.
SuperBrace fork brace
STD Enterprises, Inc.
Motorcycle Division
5701 Engineer Dr.
Huntington Beach, CA 92649
800-322-4783
A few list members have gotten a machinist to make a brace from 3/8" or so T-6061 aluminum plate, using the old one as a template. You could do this yourself by marking the holes with a transfer punch and drilling the holes in a drill press. Cutting and shaping could be done with a band saw or scroll saw, or by hand with the appropriate tools.
Snap ring pliers are a must for changing fork seals. It's hard enough with snap ring pliers, after the rings have reacted with the aluminum to weld themselves to the ring groove. If the ring is really stuck, try using a punch and hammer to rotate the ring and break the corrosion loose.
You'll also need a seal driver, but you don't have to pay $29.95 at your local Honda dealer for a specialized tool you'll seldom use. Go to your local hardware superstore and get a piece of 1 1/2" PVC pipe. They'll sell you about 4 feet more than you need, but it's cheap and you can cut off the right amount with a hacksaw. This only works with the 39mm forks of the V45s. V65s have 41mm forks. For these, get a piece of 2" PVC and a 1 1/2" coupler.
Grind or rasp the coupler down so it will fit inside the fork body and cut a piece of the 2" pipe to use on top of that.
There is one report that the pro-moly seals from Leakproof have a tendency to leak, and that stock ones from Honda are better.
Also see Motorcyclist 12/95 p. 72.
Several list members have tweaked their suspensions to improve ride and/or handling, and/or to lower the ride height (of V65 Magnas). One reports a modest approach with a V65 Magna that decreases ride harshness somewhat without adversely affecting handling: For the front, Progressive Suspension springs, with spacers cut so as to duplicate stock preload and ride height; 10w fork oil at the stock level; and 0 psi fork air pressure.
For the rear, Progressive Suspension 17000 shocks and standard weight springs. Be sure to check whether the shocks are being sold with springs assembled. If not, you will need a compression tool to assemble them.
At least a couple of list members have lowered their V65 Magnas and have provided details. In one case, the front suspension was lowered by by 2" and the rear by around 1". The front was lowered by putting spacers in the front fork where the top out spring sits. This requires disassembling the front fork to insert the spacers. The only thing that this modification affects, besides the height, is the maximum travel of the fork, but the Magna has a lot of travel to begin with. (Sliding the forks up in the triple clamp would render the air adjustability useless.)
The rear was lowered by installing shorter shocks. According to Progressive Suspension, there is a 1.2:1 ratio between the shock height and the actual lowering of the bike. The stock shocks are about 14.25" in length. A 13.5" length was used, but 13.0" probably would have been better. Even two up, at full braking & full load, neither the front forks nor the rear shocks bottom out, and speed and performance, even on the track, are very satisfactory.
In the other case, the front was lowered by raising the forks 10 mm in the triple clamps, whereas the rear was left stock height.
Users of the narrow Mustang seat report that they make the bike feel lower.
Custom shocks of various grades and lengths also are available from Ohlins (Noleen Racing, 619-246-5000) and Works Performance (818-701-1010). [Anyone tried any of these?]
See http://math.uwaterloo.ca/~rblander/V4_works.txt for a Robyn Landers's review of Works Performance suspension modifications on his V45 Sabre.
NOTE: Be careful fooling around with your suspension. Unless you know what you're doing, get some help or get a mechanic to work on it. If you don't know why, see Tony Donsisi's suspension disaster.
SABRE SHOCK OIL REFILL - Remove the shock from the
bike and put it in a vice so that the Schrader valve was on bottom.
Use a hand pump and pump a fair amount of air into it.
Remove the Schrader valve and the oil will spooge out as the air expels.
Repeat as necessary until empty. Turn the shock the other way in the vice.
Then hook the Mityvac to the valve port with a small piece of tubing.
Put a honking big vacuum on that port, and then pinch off the tubing with a
hemostat or vice grips, near the shock.
Remove the Mityvac and place that end in a container that holds the appropriate
amount of shock oil.
Release the hemostat and the shock will fill itself.
STEERING HEAD BEARINGS
If the steering head bearings need servicing, consider replacing ball bearings with roller bearings if your bike doesn't already have them. One list member reports that the bearings cost about $50. Follow the manual to remove the forks, take apart the stem, drive off the old bearings, and tap in the new bearings. This can take some patience, as they can be stuck tight. You will need a drift to remove the lower race from the stem (it has to go around a bend). One LM reports that a car tire iron works. Also see Motorcyclist 11/96 p. 78.
You can install a grease fitting while you have the stem apart. Find a spot near the top of the stem and below the top bearing which does not interfere with cables, wires, etc. and can be reached with the drill and grease gun. Drill and tap the hole and install the zerk fitting. Grease the bearings, assemble the stem, adjust the bearings, and use the grease gun to fill the stem with grease. Stop when grease starts oozing out of the bearings. Wipe off the excess and reassemble.
Some V65s appear to suffer from a wobble or weave under certain high-demand conditions, especially high-speed (>=90 mph) sweepers. This appears to be inherent and probably is due to flexing of forks, frame, or both. Wobble under other conditions indicates that repairs or adjustments are needed somewhere.
Diagnosis is as follows:
Temperature equivalents for the bar gauge.
| Bar | Temp C/F | Conditions |
| 1 | 46/115 | Warm-Up |
| 2 | 54/129 | Warm-Up |
| 3 | 72/162 | Warm-up, highway speed |
| 4 | 93/199 | City speeds, some stops |
| 5 | 102/216 | Heavy traffic, fan off/on |
| 6 | 115/239 | Only balancing carbs, fan off/on |
| 7 | 130/266 | Replace fan switch |
See CARBURETORS, R&R.
Tire sizes are indicated by number/letter combinations such as 140/90-H16, meaning 140 mm wide, 90% as high as it is wide, and fits a 16" rim. The letter is the rating according to highest continuous speed (S = 112 mph, H = 130 mph, V = 149 mph, and Z = over 149 mph). M_ sizes are American sizes; for example an MR90-18 71H is equivalent to a 120/90-18, and an MU90-16 78H tire is equivalent to a 140-90/16. You don't see these much anymore.
Tires also have a pressure rating molded into the sidewall. This is the MAXIMUM tire pressure, not the recommended pressure. The recommended pressure will be given in the owner's manual and will also be on a decal on the swingarm or under the seat or someplace. The recommended pressure is a guideline based on an average load and riding style. Heavier loads, uh, "spirited" riding, or different tires may require a slightly higher than recommended pressure. Don't use less than the recommended pressure, since this could lead to excessive heat buildup due to increased flexing, which can lead to tire failure.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES EXCEED THE MAXIMUM PRESSURE!
Metzelers appear to be the overwhelming favorite; ME33 Lazer, either regular or Comp K compound, on the front, and either ME99A Perfect or ME55 Metronic on the rear. Bridgestone S11s are reported superior to Dunlop K591s in both traction and mileage, although the K591s appear to be somewhat superior to some of the stock tires.
At least two owners of V65 Magnas (one '84 and one '85) have installed ME99As in 150/80-16, 10 mm wider than the stock 140/90-16, with no clearance problems and no significant change in rpm/mph ratio. The tight spot is the brake torque arm, and with this tire there is about 1/8" clearance. Don't try to use a wider tire on the front. Some 120s will fit (barely), but the bike will handle like a pig.
It is true, in general, that radials require a wider rim. It is also true that at the time the Magna and Sabre were produced, radials were not readily available. Radial tires, however, due to their design, have a range of rim widths that they will fit, as recommended by the manufacturer. In each company's catalog is the recommended rim width for each tire. The 150-80ZR16 radial, from Metzeler, Michelin, and Pirelli, (and also the Sportmax, when they made them), according to the factory catalogs, can be used on the rear of the Magna, and 110/80-18s can be used on the front. One list member has been using radials for 30,000+ trouble free miles on the V65 Magna, and recommends them highly.
To order free motorcycle tire catalogs the numbers are:
The Metzeler MEZ2 radials appear to be unavailable in the US. Some vendors apparently just routinely say the tires are on BO but delivery is expected within 2 weeks, but every time you call it's still 2 weeks and they never get the tires. Apparently Metzeler is selling all of them it makes in Europe. Our radial tire expert says to go with Avons or Michelins. Specifically, for the V65 Magna: front, Avon AV27, 110/80 ZR18; rear, Avon ST23, 150/80 ZR16. He also relates that "the radials don't feel right unless inflated to their maximum rated pressure, or minus two psi. This is verified by information I have obtained from the manufacturer."
We have a report that Battlax BT-17s are superior to Metzeler bias ply tires on a VF1000F.
http://www.micapeak.com/WetLeather/pages/tiremount.html
Compression tester
JC Whitney features the following:
COMPRESSION TESTER for *all* motorcycles
Includes 10mm, *12mm*, and 14mm long reach adaptors....
P/N 14AJ7807N $27.95 Page 35, catalog #76J
DRP offers a transmission undercut service to repair and prevent the gearbox from popping out of 2nd and 5th gears.
Dodge Racing Products, Huntersville, NC, (704) 892-7961, drp123@mindspring.com
You can check lateral wheel runout with the wheels on the bike, as long as the wheel bearings are tight. A quick check can be made without a dial indicator by clamping a soft lead pencil to the fork or swingarm so the point just barely touches the rim, then rotating the wheel and carefully observing the pencil point. If there is any significant runout you will be able to see it. You can also use a dial indicator similarly.
BLISTERING CHROME ON MAGNA WHEELS
This is a fairly common problem. On the outside it's just cosmetic but it's not unusual for it to get bad enough on the bead sealing areas to cause chronic leaks.
Possible solutions are:
Rather than tediously lining up the timing marks, you can reconnect the wiring plugs that you disconnected while removing the heat shield and rear cylinder cover, so that the starter motor will work. Flip the kill switch so the engine won't actually start, then blip the starter so that the cam lobe on the *opposite* end of the camshaft you're working on is at full lift. The cam profiles on the Magna/Sabre are not very radical, so you have a fair bit of leeway as to where this occurs. Now, on the end of the camshaft you're working on, install the special tool. Both ends of the camshaft are now being pressed up against the camshaft holders, so the camshaft won't be tilted. The long flat feeler gauges are flexible enough to be easily bent to ensure there is no binding when testing the clearance. ("Bent" doesn't mean putting a sharp crease in them to make an angle, just pressing down a little to curve it so that it goes straight in between the adjusting screw and valve.) Use two gauges at once, one under each side of the follower. When the clearance is correct, the gauge should be moveable with a slight drag, whereas the next size up should not go in at all, unless you really force it, in which case you're fighting against the valve spring. Even after carefully setting the valve clearance, there may still be a little audible ticking, especially before the engine fully warms up.
As related on Robyn Landers's web site, some later engines had the cam bearings line bored. These can be identified by half-circle plugs in the heads where the boring tool went in. Clearances on these engines are tighter so supposedly you don't need the special tool to adjust valve clearances.
You can check out valve noise with an automotive stethoscope, or the poor man's substitute: a long screwdriver held with the tip pressed into the hex socket in the head of the rocker shaft and the other end pressed against your ear.
THE DAVE DODGE METHOD OF VALVE ADJUSTMENT
The Compleat SabMag Links
The SabMag High-Tech & Customization Page
http://www2.xtdl.com/~tonyd/magna/mcpage.htm
Art Reitsma (Art's Tierney-Hollen type oil mod, cam regrinding FAQ)
http://www.island.net/~areitsma/
Bob's V45 Magna Page (reviews, links)
http://www.cyberspc.mb.ca/~rsunley/
Brian's Oil System Modification (Brian Sydness, the tubing wizard)
http://www.cyberspc.mb.ca/~rsunley/briansoil.html
Robyn Landers (Keeper of the V4)
http://math.uwaterloo.ca/~rblander/moto.html
The Sabre/Magna Gallery (bikes, riders, SabMag West events)
http://www2.cdepot.net/~tcwild/sabmag.htm
One list member's take on it:
Mike Stewart (Iron Mike) - King of the SabMag list, defender of the wrench, almanack of the mechanical, rider of the IBR. Will tolerate ijits to a point, then scathingly refers them to FAQ. Also keeper of FAQ.
Jude Federspiel - High Priest (runs the listserver). Dissappears on long, noposting journeys, only return and post again. Sort of functions like deus-ex-machina, will usually step in to nuke transgressors when things get out of hand.
Ye Wilde Ryder - Knight-Errant and Grand Exalted Poobah (Grand Exhausted Rooster?) of SabMag. Has owned more bikes than most dealers, known to roost on little notice. Occasionally fills in for D.R. when lunatics, cretins, and morons post.
David Ryder - Court Jester, flamer of newbies, promalgumator of electronic assault and battery on the uninformed. If YWR is Don Quixote to this list, then D.R. is Sancho Panza. ;-)
Milt Oberman - Poet Lauerate of SabMag, Legal Advisor, and Cartographer. Straight man for Ryder.
??michael - Resident Artiste of SabMag, also official obscure music advisor, counterculture expert, and stalking horse for Ye and Mike.
